Saturday, November 22, 2008

Let's Define "Slavery", If We May...

On November 19, American alternative historian Howard Zinn gave a speech at the Univeristy of Quebec in Montreal.

While Montreal's 9/11 Truth organization took the opportunity to vent their outrage at Zinn for refusing to join their movement, Zinn also made some interesting remarks about Iraq war resisters. In a question-and-answer period, Zinn was asked a question about how Canadians can force the government to start sheltering Iraq war resisters.

It's widely known that Howard Zinn is an advocate of nonviolent civil disobedience, a tactic that he and many of his students used to protest the Vietnam war. There's little surprise that Zinn's answer invoked civil disobedience, but Zinn's remarks on the historical context of the matter simply defy credulity:

"It's going to take a lot of civil disobedience. It'll be like what Americans did in the 1850s when Congress passed the Fugitive Slave act requiring that slaves be sent back to their masters.

What happened is that we had citizens organize to rescue these slaves. To refuse to allow the authorities to take them back.

So you will have these organized citizens actions to protect and defend and give sanctuary to GIs who come here. That would mean violating the law. That would mean organization and mass action. Even if it fails, and even if the police come in and don't allow the rescue to take place, it will bring dramatic attention to the situation that may then arouse enough Canadian citizens to join the movement for the defense and sanctuary, and force a change in policy.
Of course, the reaction to the Fugitive Slave Act is a great example of citizens banding together to oppose an unjust law.

But the comparison between the two leads one to wonder if Zinn understands what slavery was, or if he spent any amount of time considering such issues before answering this question.

The key distinction between slavery and Iraq war resisters is actually the same as the stark distinction between Vietnam war resisters and Iraq war resisters.

Slavery is not a voluntary condition. It involves forcibly putting people into bondage in support of causes for which they will be disproportionately reimbursed for the value of their labour. In the modern context, slaves are generally considered to be property -- although in Greek (particularly Athenian) antiquity, slaves were actually regarded as indentured (and, once again, involuntary) employees).

A conscripted soldier, such as was the case during the Vietnam conflict, could certainly be successfully argued to fit this particular definition.

But Iraq war resisters -- universally members of a volunteer military -- simply cannot. They volunteered to join the military. In some cases, such as that of Brad McCall, they enlisted after the Iraq war began.

In some cases, that of Corey Glass, the soldiers in question weren't facing Court Martials at all.

Glass almost seemed disappointed. "I had absolutely no idea that I had been discharged," Glass told American network ABC. "This is insane. This is so weird. There are no warrants? No one is looking for me?"

In fact, Glass had actually been discharged from the US Army before he even arrived in Canada. He insists he didn't know this.

Iraq war resisters hiding in Canada are far from slaves. No matter what delusions they entertain, those seeking to ensure the Canadian state shelters them are far from a modern incarnation of the underground railroad.

Howard Zinn is widely known as a man of intense social conscience. But that social conscience may have gotten the better of him this time around, as his allusions between Iraq war resisters and slavery prove to be, ultimately, vacuous.

As for the 9/11 "truth" movement, Zinn can be forgiven for his lack of patience. It's simply not worthwhile to continue dealing with people too stupid to admit that their consipracy theories have been thoroughly and constantly rubished.


  1. "a man of intense social conscience"

    Canadians are so polite. I can think if better, more accurate things to call him. intense hate-mongering nihilist, for one.

  2. Oh, and Zinn's refusal to joining the Troofers, it simply wouldn't fit well with his purpose, which is to make everyone believe the world hates the US and the US had it coming.

  3. Howard Zinn tends to focus analyses on minorities.

    I'm sorry to say that the United States isn't the only country that fairs poorly in that regard.

  4. In a debate on US foreign policy Howard Zinn would not stand a chance with such intellectuals such as

    Berkeley Univ.'s Pater Dale Scott;former professor of journalism Barrie Zwicker;Michael C. Ruppert ,director

    of the From The Wilderness publication; Dr. Michel Chossudosky from Ottawa univ.;Lethbridge's professor of globalization

    studies Anthony Hall; Dr. Ganiele Ganser, a Swiss professor of security studies and many more.


    Because Zinn just touches the surface but does not not deal with '' the deep state politics '' as professor

    Peter Dale Scott refers to. For Zinn to evade such topics as the CIA/NATO/CSIS/RCMP/DIA/MI5/MI6 connections and complicity in the drug trade, money-laundering,weapons trafficking,funding and training of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups,false-flag terrorism,infiltration,spies and more is to have a incomplete view of what our govts are doing behind our backs and how to correct it.

    GMOs, reforming the banking system, democratizing our media and several other similar issues are all important

    and deserve our attention to make this world a better place for us all but to ignore,learn about and prosecute the culprits behind false flag terrorism is to risk future generations in making the same mistake as others in the past.

    The tactic of divide and conquer has been used since man has first existed. It doesn't matter what poltical system the people are ruled under and/or the level of corruption eradicated with a nation's political system. There will

    always be criminal elements within the society who wish to acquire more power. What better method to achieve this goal than induce fear in the people with spreading lies and orchestrating false-flag terrorism to subvert ones govt.

    Remember how the false-flag terror attack of the burning of the Reichstag mobilized the Nazi's war agenda?

    Well , Hermann Goering said it best before commiting suicide at the Nuremberg trial:

    "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

  5. Over 500 architects and engineers,former German defence secretary Andreas Von Bulow, former Italian minister of the interior Francesco Cossiga, Former US stars wars head Dr. Paul Paul Bowman, and countless other experts dismiss the official story and urge and a new inquiry. Are these experts in aviation, intelligence, physics, engineering crack-heads??

  6. Yes, Jacob, they are. And virtually none of them qualify as actual "experts".

    Where do you want me to start? With claims that the alleged free-fall speed of the buildings' collapse is proof of a planned demolition when video footage proves the building is actually falling slower than freefall speed?

    With claims that the airliners weren't shot down is proof that it was a conspiracy, whereas no hijacked airliner has ever been shot down over US territory?

    Where do you want me to start, Jake?

    Your movement's theories don't stand up to scrutiny. They're factually indefensible, and they contradict one another on numerous counts.

  7. There was practically no resistance. A large part of the structure should have still been intact if indeed the planes and the fire were the cause for the collapse of the bldgs. Fire and a gravitational collapse does not explain the presence of molten metal, pulverized concrete, and body parts being found on the roof tops of neighbouring bldgs. This is basic physics.

    Interesting that when 9/11 activists seek to have phycists and/or engineers debate Dr. Steven Jones (former BYU phycist professor) on how the towers came down countless chicken out.
    Could it be cause in August 2008, Jones, along with Kevin Ryan and James Gourley, published a peer-reviewed article in The Environmentalist, titled, 'Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: evidence for energetic materials??

    At least three of the 'hijacked' planes were not intercepted when they should have, as stated by Dr. Paul Bob Bowman, a former US air force director and by pilots for 9/11 truth. Interestingly enough, not one member of the NORAD command was ever reprimanded for their conduct on 9/11. Instead, many were promoted.

    Give me some real questions.

    Oh ! Are you the expert and not the countless accredited architects and engineers who you dismiss as experts? Pilots (both civilian and military)for 9/11 Truth are not experts? Veteran CIA officers such as Robert D. Steele and Ray Mcgovern are nutjobs? Former The list goes on.

    You and the 'experts' you received your information from would not stand chance in a real 9/11 debate.

    " Deception is a state of mind the mind of the state."
    -James Jesus Angleton,former CIA chief of counter-intelligence

  8. ROTFL

    Nope, I'm just going off of what the real experts, and the real science has to say.

    And what the real experts and the real science says is that you feebs are peddling pure fiction.

    Pure. Fiction. And I'm not even going to indulge you clowns by pretending there's any basis in fact, whatsoever, for your widely disproven theories.

    But what I will do is elaborate just a little further on how amusing I find it that the 9/11 "truth" movement approached Howard Zinn because you thought he would join up with you and help you push your pathetic little fiction.

    But he effectively told you to fuck off, and all of a sudden we have twits like yourself and "Jacob" hanging around here trying to pretend that, all of a sudden, the widely-known, respected and acclaimed Howard Zinn -- widely recognized as one of the world's top historians -- is some kind of lightweight compared to their leading 9/11 "truth"ers, virtually none of which anyone has heard of.

    It is to laugh.

  9. Attention Mr. Ross, it looks quite obvious to me that the reason why left-wing intellectuals like Zinn and Chomsky get much mainstream attention and not intellectuals such as Peter Dale Scott, Michel Chossudovsky, David Ray Griffin and Daniel Ganser is because Zinn/Chomsky evade deep state politics.
    (The rogue govt elements tied in with the underworld. Everything from weapons trafficking,the drug trade,money-laudering,funding and training of terrorist groups,state sponsored false-flag terrorism,Al Qaeda= CIA/DIA,the shady world of intelligence agencies and their links to the corporate sector and humanitarian agencies,The building up of Nazi Germany with help from Standard Oil,GM,ITT, Bush's grandfather = a Nazi banker's US representative,etc... ).

    In otherwords, it is safe for the status quo to publicize work from people like Zinn in the mainstream press cause he doesn't rock the boat. Ex.:The MOntreal's LeDevoir newspaper gave a large spread to Zinn's Montreal visit whereas our event this week with Michel Chossudovsky on the global financial crisis is being completely ignored.

    ZInn, Chomsky = status quo, Left wing gatekeepers

    Why? Could it be cause Chossudovsky has documented how the Kosovo Liberation Army (involved in the drug trade, prostitution and weapons trafficking) was working hand in glove with Islamic fundementalists and being funded & trained by the US and British intelligence; the illicit drug trade tied in with Wall Street and US covert operations, Al Qaeda is a creation of US Intel., false flag operations 9/11 ,JFK,RFK, MLK, The shady relationship between corporations,humanitarian agencies and the intelligence agencies ).

    To claim that Chossudovsky is ignored cause he's on the fringe is utter nonsense. He is seven times recipient of the Project Censored Award , Sonoma University School of Journalism, California (2000 (double award), 2001 (double award), 2002, 2004, Nominated for 2005). His website, Global Research (Canada) was granted the Democracy Media Award in 2002, 2003 and 2004 by

    He's personally told some of us how the mainstream media on one occasion had him in studio for TV interview and cancelled just minutes before. Surprise Surprise

    I'm a leftist myself but I can't stomach Zinn's ignorance of deep state politics.

  10. ...!

    I hate to break this to you, but Noam Chomsky pioneered your so-called "deep state politics".

    Seeing as how you've demonstrated your naive ignorance in one fell swoop, I just don't feel obligated to do it for you.

    As for Global Research, one supposes that people like David Orchard need some place to voice the looniest of their views -- such as that the Afghanistan war is comparable to slavery? That was a bright one.

    And I'll also take this opportunity to address Mike and his notions of peer review: taking a 9/11 "truth"-promoting article to a 9/11 "truth"er to have them review it for you does not qualify as legitimate peer review. If you understood, in the slightest, what this process is supposed to entail you would know this.


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