tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149446.post1733488112803675702..comments2023-10-10T10:34:10.843-06:00Comments on The Nexus of Assholery: Alberta InDecision '08: Desperation Time for the Left?Patrick Rosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04592482865332628189noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149446.post-12357366331396519932008-03-16T02:25:00.000-06:002008-03-16T02:25:00.000-06:00If you were to amend your statement to say that ST...If you were to amend your statement to say that STV is as close to proportional representation that a riding-based political system permits, I'd agree with you 100%.<BR/><BR/>But it doesn't even operate according to the same principle. Proportional representation is based on the principle that every vote cast anywhere should have a measurable impact on the partisan makeup of a legislative body.<BR/><BR/>But under STV, suppose you have four candidates running. Candidates one and two claim the majority of the first- and second- choice ballots. Yet <I>other</I> people in the riding rank opponents three and four as <I>their</I> first- and second-choice.<BR/><BR/>Instead of counting those votes toward a national total on which representatives are assigned according to overall popular vote, these votes are simply lumped in amongst the so-called losers of the political game.<BR/><BR/>Proportional representation is supposed to ensure there <I>are</I> no so-called losers.<BR/><BR/>I simply can't regard STV as a form of proportional representation -- <I>at least</I> in a single-member riding system, and I admit that it's therein that lies the rub.<BR/><BR/>I simply don't consider six- or seven- member ridings as a viable option. The partisan considerations of each of the different members could serve to distort the interests of the riding in the public eye, as each member puts his or her personal -- and often conflicting -- spin on it.<BR/><BR/>I know that bias is just as prevalent in a single-member system, but at least it's only one bias, and it speaks more clearly -- even if it doesn't clearly speak -- for the riding in question.<BR/><BR/>It's simply an imperfection in the system that we as citizens need to embrace as a challenge -- one we should be eager to meet.Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04592482865332628189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149446.post-88455438762007360552008-03-15T23:51:00.000-06:002008-03-15T23:51:00.000-06:00STV is as proportional as the size of the multi-me...STV is as proportional as the size of the multi-member ridings permits.<BR/><BR/>At the extreme low end -- single-member ridings -- STV is merely an instant run-off system, not a PR system at all.<BR/><BR/>With six-member districts (as in Northern Ireland) or seven-member districts (as Tasmania had for quite a while), or even five-member districts (used in several places), it can be quite a good PR system. Indeed Ireland calls it PR/STV.<BR/><BR/>Whether you prefer MMP (no doubt with regional open lists, so the proportional MLAs are accountable) or STV, or the list-free "near-winner" mixed system used in the German province of Baden-Wurttemberg, depends on your geographic and other considerations. <BR/><BR/>Any of them could be good solutions for Alberta. That's why a Citizens' Assembly is a good way to chose the best option for Alberta and design a model to fit Alberta's geography and political culture -- as long as you have a year or so for public consideration of the model before any referendum (which was lacking in both BC and Ontario).Wilf Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17066062612690437163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149446.post-80332581447749771572008-03-12T23:54:00.000-06:002008-03-12T23:54:00.000-06:00The single-transferable vote is not a tool of prop...The single-transferable vote is <I>not</I> a tool of proportional representation. It's simply a matter of bringing first- and second-choice preferences into the matter rather than simply first-choice preferences.<BR/><BR/>Some jurisdictions are quite satisfied with STV. But it isn't a proper PR initiative. It simply doesn't function by the same principles.Patrick Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04592482865332628189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9149446.post-89996979226763663952008-03-12T18:41:00.000-06:002008-03-12T18:41:00.000-06:00You wrote:In a parliamentary system, there's reall...You wrote:<BR/>In a parliamentary system, there's really only two ways to make proportional representation work: either abolish ridings outright or implement some kind of system in which representatives are simply assigned to a riding.<BR/><BR/>What rubbish!<BR/>Ireland has had a parliamentary system for nearly 90 years and in all that time has elected the members of the lower house from multi-member ridings using the single transferable vote (STV-PR). It works perfectly well, so there is no need either for national party lists or for assignment to ridings.James Gilmourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17374325929212547383noreply@blogger.com